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Generals speak out on torture

Group lobbying candidates about treatment of prisoners

By Ben Szobody

Monday, January 14, 2008

A group of four retired Army generals say they're trying to meet with presidential candidates of both parties to warn them about confusing tough talk on terrorism with the endorsement of torture, which they say puts national security and the safety of U.S. troops at risk.

The four are among a larger group of military officials who have lobbied Congress to prohibit a "secret set of rules" for intelligence agents and their treatment of prisoners. They told The Greenville News they've met with eight current or former candidates so far -- seven Democrats and one Republican.

"Torture doesn't accomplish the mission that you're torturing for," said retired Lt. Gen. Charles P. Otstott, who served 32 years in the Army, including two combat tours in Vietnam, and commanded the 25th Infantry Division.

Otstott and his colleagues said they have "direct experience" with the issue and believe post-Sept. 11 pledges to "take the gloves off" and similar changes in rhetoric have led to the torture and abuse of detainees, but that its use has declined since the Abu Ghraib scandal.

"It is a different war, but it doesn't mean our standards ... have to imitate these Muslim fundamentalists," said retired Lt. Gen. Harry E. Soyster, currently a special assistant to the Secretary of the Army and formerly director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Army's deputy chief of staff for intelligence and the commanding general of the Army's Intelligence and Security Command.

So far, the generals said the use of torture has caused intelligence to dry up, provided wrong information to the military, dissuaded potential allies from joining the United States and put American prisoners of war at higher risk of abuse.

Their focus now is to explain the finer points of torture to presidential candidates and urge the country's next commander in chief to distinguish between tough campaign talk and terms that could be used to excuse abuse.

To date, the generals have met with Democratic candidates Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards, as well as former candidates Bill Richardson, Joe Biden and Chris Dodd.

The lone Republican to meet with them is Mike Huckabee, they said, adding that John McCain is supportive of the group's work.

At issue is what Soyster said should be "one rule" of treatment for every human detainee, from terror suspects to Greenville's petty criminals.

Retired Brig. Gen. David R. Irvine, a former Utah legislator who has taught prisoner of war interrogation at the Sixth U.S. Army Intelligence School, said that torture not only doesn't work but is a "blunt instrument" at odds with strategic tactics that typically yield good intelligence.

Responding to a hypothetical "ticking time bomb" scenario, Otstott said, "It only works for Jack Bauer." He was referring to the counterterrorism agent on the television show 24.

In the real world, a detainee with knowledge of a bomb that might soon go off would like nothing more than to waste an interrogator's time and give false information, said retired Brig. Gen. James Cullen, who has served as chief judge of the Army's Court of Criminal Appeals and commander of the 4th Military law Center.

That underscores the unreliability of information obtained under torture, Cullen said, adding that if the U.S. finds itself in such a predicament there's already a "huge failure" in intelligence. He also said the use of torture results in less intelligence from traditional sources who are loathe to cooperate once abuses like those at Abu Ghraib become known.

The generals said they won't endorse a presidential candidate.

Retired officers talk torture